Young Social Media Influencers Debate Leaving Same Sex Attractions/Behaviors for Christ
by Debra Baty
Photo by Thomas Park on Unsplash
On Nov. 22, 2023, Amala Ekpunobi, a podcaster who used to be on the political left, and is not a Christian, posted a review of an online debate, which she described as follows:
Jubilee’s recent Middle Ground conversation between current and former members of the LGBTQ community. I truly felt in the middle on this one, as I’m neither part of the acronym community nor of the religious people who’ve left it, but it made for a very interesting, insightful, and at times, tense conversation. Let’s get into it.
Ekpunobi’s YouTube channel has 1.78M subscribers, and this particular review video has at least 142,575 views, expanding the reach of the original posting. Her review of this debate, entitled, “Can You Stop Being Gay?” was refreshing as it offers the perspective of a non-Christian who gave everyone a fair hearing. She was confused about certain points made by the orthodox Christians on the panel, but asked for clarification among the Christians in her own audience to help her grasp what was being said. It was good to see she knew enough about Christianity to ask when something seemed to not be in line with our faith, and that she knew Christians she could ask for help.
The Debate Panel
Eight persons formed the panel, four who currently identify as LGBT+ and four who no longer do so – all of whom claim a relationship with Christ. The four who currently ID as part of that acronym are Abigail Hillz, Brandon Robertson, Candice, and Gilbert. The four formerly LGB-identifying individuals are Rashad Verne, Rodereck Blassingame, Samuel Perez, and Xiala. Of these, the ones with the most experience communicating online are Brandon Robertson and Samuel Perez.
From his website, we learn:
Rev. Brandan Robertson is a noted author, activist, and public theologian working at the intersections of spirituality, sexuality, and social renewal. Robertson is most known for his work as the “TikTok Pastor”, creating thousands of TikTok videos on inclusive theology which have garnered over 200k followers and 5 million views. A prolific writer, he is the author of nine books on spirituality, justice, and theology, including the INDIES Book of the Year Award Finalist True Inclusion: Creating Communities of Radical Embrace. Robertson has bylines in publications such as TIME Magazine, San Diego Union Tribune, The Huffington Post, NBC, and The Washington Post. Robertson received his BA in Pastoral Ministry and Theology from Moody Bible Institute, his MTS from Iliff School of Theology, and his MA in Political Science and Public Administration from Eastern Illinois University. He is currently pursuing his PhD in Religion from Drew University. He currently resides in New York City.
His YouTube channel has 2.95K subscribers where he’s posted 131 videos and received 309,893 views. On TikTok he has 215.5K followers and has accrued 5.5M “likes.”
Samuel Perez describes himself on Instagram as:
Former Gay Stripper Now Child Of God. Worshiper. Pastor. John 1:5 💡
And via YouTube:
Hi, my name is Samuel Perez, I love to share my story and experiences on how God has changed my life from dating men to being exclusively Gods. I hope my story and experiences can help others know that they too don't have to live bound by the homosexual lifestyle and that God loves them!
https://linktr.ee/SamuelAbrahamP IG: SamuelAbrahamP .. CONTACT ME Email : UnitedTwelve@gmail.com
https://linktr.ee/SamuelAbrahamP IG: SamuelAbrahamP .. CONTACT ME Email : UnitedTwelve@gmail.com
His YouTube channel has 17.3K subscribers, with 235 videos and 1,049,601 views. On TicTok he has accumulated 75.2K followers and 1.9M “likes.”
Both Perez and Robertson state they are pastors. Two of the orthodox Christians on the panel are married to someone of the complimentary sex – Xiala and Rashad, with Rashad having a child on the way. Candice described herself as having a “wife and kids” and has an “Affirming Counseling” practice, helping those who want to embrace homosexuality as though it was compatible with the Christian faith.
One individual who stood out, and introduced quite a bit of confusion, was Abigail, who has a disorder of sexual development called De la Chapelle syndrome, and identifies as “intersex.” This is “A rare difference of sex development (DSD) associated with a 46, XX karyotype and characterized by male external genitalia, ranging from normal to atypical with associated testosterone deficiency.”[1] So, she is genetically a woman with a chromosomal abnormality creating some type of male external genitalia. This is an objective, clinically verifiable condition which, throughout the debate, she and others on the currently-identified as LGB panel believed was on the same biological footing as sexual orientation. Scientifically, this is not the case, as there is no agreed-upon definition of sexual orientation or reliable objective measurement of it. There has not been any one biological cause or marker of same sex attraction found, only potential influencing factors.
Debate Topics & Discussion
The prompts for the debate were:
0:36 You're queer even if you suppress your homosexual desires
7:52 There is a scientific basis behind being LGBTQ
13:44 Conversion therapy has positive outcomes
20:06 A healthy family requires a male and female role model
[No discussion posted.]
20:20 The Pride Movement is negatively affecting younger generations
29:06 LGBTQ people won't go to heaven
35:18 It's healthy to experiment with sexuality
Not surprisingly, the panelists often spoke past one another, particularly over Abigail, whose medical DSD condition is not the same as those experiencing attractions to the same sex. For example, when the traditional/orthodox Christians all stepped forward for the promt, “LGBTQ people won’t go to heaven,” Gilbert later raced forward to voice how he was appalled they were also condemning Abigail. The Christians on the panel made no such judgement, seeing this as a separate matter. But it was hard for them to get a word in edgewise to correct Gilbert’s false assumption.
On that question, the Christians spoke boldly about the condemnation of the practice of same sex erotic behavior in Scripture, but the transformation possible through Jesus, focusing on I Cor. 6:9-11. They encouraged pastors and churches to speak more often about redemption for those experiencing sexual temptations or gender confusion.
Brandon shared how he had a negative experience with Christian counseling in the past. The trad/ortho Christians agreed that counseling which promises changes in one’s desires is to be avoided and discouraged. Candice, unfortunately, went further in projecting unhappiness on Rashad – implying he is destined to become miserable like the clients in her “affirming counseling” practice. She later states she “felt God’s presence most” when she kissed a woman. She went on to demonstrate a foundational difference between her perspective and that of the Christians on the panel:
Candice: “I am a gay Christian and I have the spirit of God inside of me. There's no scripture that you can point to that can disprove that because it's about my personal relationship with my soul and heart, with the divine being we call God.”
Rashad: “I actually do… I have two Scriptures…”
Candice: “I just told you, you cannot use Scripture sir.”
Rodereck: “How?”
Rashad: “But…we’re Christians!”
Candice: “If you’re gonna hold the Bible above my personal relationship with Jesus Christ then you have held the Bible as an idol.”
These are two different religions. Candice later referred to “the divine inside” herself, confirming she views god from an internal, feelings-based focus. A projection of her own senses. While the Christians on the panel view God as holy, with the authority to speak into their lives regarding their feelings, directing us into repentance, offering correction and His perspective, and providing the power to follow through on obedience. In her review of the debate, podcaster Amala Ekpunobi saw the difference between these two groups stemming from these different foundational perspectives.
Throughout the debate, the LGB+ identifying group had differing opinions on many of the prompts, while the Christian group were united in their responses, although none of them knew one another before the debate. Their unity was rooted in their reliance on the Word of God, their obedience in leaving SSA and their old behaviors behind, and their desire to reach everyone for Christ. While there was plenty of body language demonstrating their agreement or displeasure coming from the LGB+-identified group, the Christians were calm and listened politely, only shaking their heads when they were misunderstood by Gilbert on his assumption they were condemning Abigail. (Which, you could tell, they were eager to clarify and correct.)
In a later video interview of the Christian panel, done by Samuel Perez, we learn these Christians come from a charismatic background.[2] Some of the convictions associated with this branch of our faith caused some confusion and raised concerns among those commenting on the video. (I.e. - earthquakes are God’s punishment against a country living in disobedience to Him. Homosexuality is due to demonic influences, etc.) I don’t personally relate to these, having come from a different tradition in our faith, and I wish they would not have mentioned this due to the disproportionate attention this received, serving as a distraction from the rest of the discussion. The panelists did share they had been praying throughout the debate, and about how encouraged they were by hearing one another’s responses to the prompts and their individual stories.
Overall, the way in which the Christians conducted themselves was admirable, and I pray this discussion leads people to dig deeper into what it means to follow Jesus with all your heart, soul, mind and strength.
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